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Post by ndefilippis on Nov 17, 2015 0:53:30 GMT
In the excerpt from The Experience of Womanhood, the author speaks about how the "angelic" figure in Victorian Literature, specifically Jane, has a sense of identity and what she wants in the world. Antoinette, on the other hand does not know her purpose in life, and no sense of who she is, or who she is meant to be. What is interesting is that what Jane wants to be partially contradicts the identity of the "pure" woman set by Victorian literature's standards. However, the fact that Jane has a self-identity directly counteracts her being a "madwoman", who is lost in her life. This cements Jane's status as falling somewhere in the middle on the dichotomy between "pure" and "mad".
Jane's desire in life is to be in love with Rochester, but not to be confined by his patriarchal, aristocratic ways. This desire to be with Rochester, but not be confined by him is the main conflict of Jane Eyre. She can only resolve her situation once Rochester can no longer confine her and must rely on her instead. Bertha's desire, on the other hand, is the driving force behind her self-identity. She wants nothing more than for Rochester to love her and accept her. Because Rochester dos not do this, and never does it, Bertha loses her identity and is driven insane.
Both Jane and Bertha's internal conflict stem from the woman's role in society in Victorian literature. Jane wants to break free from that stereotype, and her success is Bronte's way of saying that there are other, less confining roles that women can play. Bertha Mason wants to fall into that stereotype, and her failure is Rhys's way of saying that by conforming to a patriarchal society, women are confined and trapped.
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Post by reshmabelur on Nov 17, 2015 1:05:20 GMT
Nick, the contrast between the authors' messages you pointed out is very interesting. It seems as though Rhyss is painting a more realistic picture of the role of men in Victorian society while Brontë is asserting the notion that women can seek independence. Rochester's attitude towards Antoinette is severely dismissive and harsh- giving her no respect due to her passionate nature. On the surface, this may seem like a minor aspect of the plot but in doing this, Brontë hints at the superior status men had and the "sphere of inferiority" Bertha and Jane are trapped in. What you said about Jane's possession of self-identity plays a large role in her escape from this "sphere" while Bertha's lack of it causes her to remain in literal as well as figurative confinement.
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Post by joshualiu on Nov 17, 2015 22:02:25 GMT
Reshma, you mentioned that Jane's self-identity helped her escape inferiority and confinement, while Bertha couldn't due to her absence of one. I wanted to elaborate on the differences between Jane and Bertha that result in this outcome. Jane has self-control and doesn't let her desires, as Nick talked about, get in the way of what she wants. Jane doesn't want to just be Rochester's submissive mistress, she wants to be independent and strong. So she forces herself to leave him, and only comes back after she gains wealth status and Rochester loses much of his, so she can be treated as an equal, not inferior. On the other hand, Bertha allows herself to fall into submissiveness and wild desires, which eventually lead her into Rochester's deceiving love. Bertha becomes a prisoner to Rochester, completely controlled by him, unable to escape or act on her own. Bertha accepts inferiority with Rochester, instead of following her own passions and aspirations.
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Post by ashen99 on Nov 18, 2015 22:21:18 GMT
It seems as though Rhyss is painting a more realistic picture of the role of men in Victorian society while Brontë is asserting the notion that women can seek independence. Rochester's attitude towards Antoinette is severely dismissive and harsh- giving her no respect due to her passionate nature. On the surface, this may seem like a minor aspect of the plot but in doing this, Brontë hints at the superior status men had and the "sphere of inferiority" Bertha and Jane are trapped in. What you said about Jane's possession of self-identity plays a large role in her escape from this "sphere" while Bertha's lack of it causes her to remain in literal as well as figurative confinement. Hi Reshma, Your comment about the reality of Bertha's situation in Jean Rhys' novel was interesting. Do you think Bronte's novel represents a hope for the future of women, or is it more of a strong message to society that women are intellectual and independent. Basically, why would Bronte choose to write a less realistic novel? |
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Post by Emily Werkheiser on Nov 18, 2015 22:42:31 GMT
Nick, I think that you make a very good point about Jane’s desires contradicting the definition of a “pure” woman by establishing a self-identity, yet she does not embody the lost “madwoman” either.
To elaborate on this idea of Jane’s self-identity as well as her status falling towards the middle of the scale, the article also establishes the two types of women who refuse to be passive as the subordinate working-class women versus the insubordinate middle or upper class ladies. The article highlights the important distinction between the words woman and lady, in which a lady is one whose only desires relate to serving her husband and children. After stating that “a woman could never be a lady”, the article goes into greater depth about the two types of subordinate working class women. There are those who mimic the characteristics and virtues of a lady, and those who are constantly in danger of becoming a “fallen women”. Yet Jane, a member of the subordinate working-class of women, does not seem to clearly embody either of these definitions. She maintains her position as an intellectual, independently thinking woman who values her own morals and dignity above serving a man. Yet by the end, she has plenty of money and a husband, meaning that she is not in danger of becoming a “fallen woman”. Would you attribute Jane’s escape of being at risk for becoming a “fallen woman” to her value of independence, or her inheritance and marriage to Rochester?
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Post by Emily Werkheiser on Nov 18, 2015 22:43:35 GMT
Nick, I think that you make a very good point about Jane’s desires contradicting the definition of a “pure” woman by establishing a self-identity, yet she does not embody the lost “madwoman” either.
To elaborate on this idea of Jane’s self-identity as well as her status falling towards the middle of the scale, the article also establishes the two types of women who refuse to be passive as the subordinate working-class women versus the insubordinate middle or upper class ladies. The article highlights the important distinction between the words woman and lady, in which a lady is one whose only desires relate to serving her husband and children. After stating that “a woman could never be a lady”, the article goes into greater depth about the two types of subordinate working class women. There are those who mimic the characteristics and virtues of a lady, and those who are constantly in danger of becoming a “fallen women”. Yet Jane, a member of the subordinate working-class of women, does not seem to clearly embody either of these definitions. She maintains her position as an intellectual, independently thinking woman who values her own morals and dignity above serving a man. Yet by the end, she has plenty of money and a husband, meaning that she is not in danger of becoming a “fallen woman”. Would you attribute Jane’s escape of being at risk for becoming a “fallen woman” to her value of independence, or her inheritance and marriage to Rochester?
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Post by joshualiu on Nov 18, 2015 22:53:34 GMT
Alan, I think Bronte wrote Jane Eyre in a less realistic way in order to show how women should be viewed in society. Bronte underscored the independence and determination Jane had to express her ideas of how women should behave. While Rhys focused on the more negative aspect of how women were treated, Bronte tried to highlight the more important role women should have.
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