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Post by joshualiu on Nov 17, 2015 23:29:08 GMT
Rochester views Antoinette as an object that he is unwilling and unable to love. Instead of making an effort to get to know her or understand her, Rochester distances himself from her, even identifying her as "Bertha." Rochester doesn't truly love Bertha but views her as nothing more than his own possession. Giving her a new name further establishes this idea, as Rochester treats Bertha as someone he owns and can do what he wants with. By naming her Bertha, Rochester is showing that he has complete control and power over her. His power goes so far that it can even establish a new identity for Bertha, as a submissive wife that turns wild and tainted.
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Post by matthewzhang on Nov 17, 2015 23:56:02 GMT
Josh, I definitely agree with you that Bertha is made powerless and weak through Mr. Rochester and the way he treats her. I just want to expand on your argument by presenting this quote from the article, "women must be 'killed' into passivity in order for her to acquiesce.. her duty of self-abnegation 'relative to men'". This idea of women being "killed" into passivity is one of the major causes of Bertha's insanity. Bertha first loses her best friend and then is rejected by both her mother and by Rochester. This loss of identity and rejection leads Bertha to her insanity and ultimately establishing her new identity as a submissive wife that turns wild and tainted.
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Post by joshualiu on Nov 18, 2015 1:29:19 GMT
Good point. There are a lot of reasons that Bertha turned passive. One of the main causes was the lack of affection Bertha received. When she asks Rochester if he loves her, he outright says, "No, I do not." Obviously Rochester doesn't show much love for Bertha, and similarly, her mother is undependable and unloving. Bertha fails to find love from both Rochester and her mother. This leads to Bertha being uncertain of herself, which eventually makes her grow more and more submissive. What are some other causes for Bertha's passivity?
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Post by ashen99 on Nov 18, 2015 22:14:38 GMT
What are some other causes for Bertha's passivity? Hey Josh, Another factor that caused Bertha's passivity could be her distrust of religion and God. She can't really rely on it for strength, so Bertha doesn't really think it's worth it to be assertive or try to effect change in her conditions. Her situation is much more hopeless, and it leads Bertha to her descent to madness. She looks to Rochester for affection but gets outright rejected. She's called by a different name, showing Rochester's attempts to control her. Finally, she gets locked in an attic. Do you guys think Jean Rhys might be saying something about God in relation to females? Is she angry at religion for not helping women? Or was she trying to convey that the patriarchy is so dominant and controlling that it can even take away religion? |
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Post by joshualiu on Nov 19, 2015 22:40:10 GMT
Alan! I think Rhys might be making some interesting points about religion. One interpretation might be that she disagrees with having faith in God, so she tries to show that God isn't helping Bertha even in the midst of her troubling situation. On the other hand, one might say that Rhys thinks that women need support, love, and faith, whether it be in God or something else. It's clear that Bertha is crazy and wild, and she's deprived of God, so Rhys might be saying that with God, Bertha might have been happier and able to overcome her problems with Rochester.
Since Jane, who had faith in God, persevered through a lot of her conflicts, do you think that Bertha would have been more independent and stronger with God?
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Post by ashen99 on Nov 20, 2015 2:32:04 GMT
Since Jane, who had faith in God, persevered through a lot of her conflicts, do you think that Bertha would have been more independent and stronger with God? The thing is, that is a very tough question almost because it's irrelevant to Bertha's situation. The life she had basically makes her unable to have God in her life at all. She instead hopes for a male, Rochester, to express love and make her feel worthwhile. Religion isn't even a possibility here. Do you guys agree or disagree with this statement? |
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Post by harleen5 on Nov 21, 2015 15:37:03 GMT
Josh, I agree with some of you points. I do not think that Bronte was trying to say that God isn't helping Bertha as she finds herself in a difficult situation. I think that Bronte is showing that Jane believes in God and finds comfort in religion. On the other hand, Bertha feels that faith with not change her situation or help her in any way. I also don't think that Bronte was trying to say that Bertha felt believing in God would have helped her overcome her problems. Rather, I feel that Bronte believes that religion would have given Bertha comfort and strength to brave through her situation.
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