pditzler
New Member
I'm here to analyze literature and be a cool kid, and I'm all done being a cool kid.
Posts: 16 
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Post by pditzler on Nov 18, 2015 0:50:20 GMT
Demonizing women for their sexual desires was rampant in nineteenth century literature and society, both by directly labeling women whores or prostitutes and by suggesting it indirectly in the glorification of women with modest or very conservative sexual values. Women were expected to save sex for marriage and to prioritize pleasing their husband. With these strict and unfair rules placed on women, many weren't able to express their true opinions or have sex freely without seeming un-Christian or immoral. The effects of the societal beliefs of the time greatly influence the behaviors of the women in Jane Eyre as well. So, the questions I figure I should propose so the rest of you can uncomfortably discuss sex and relationships are as follows... What differences are apparent in the way Jane treats her romantic relationship with Mr. Rochester and how Mr. Rochester expected Bertha to behave in their marriage? What kinds of cultural differences do you think affected Jane's and Bertha's values and opinions, since they came from England and Jamaica, respectively? Are lasting effects of these not-so-ancient beliefs that are constricting girls and women in modern society? And how are the effects apparent in books/media/entertainment? How drastically have religious/societal beliefs about sex shifted over the centuries? Why do we have to learn Sex Ed. in school? Like, when are we gonna have to know that stuff anyway?  ? |
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Post by morganmassino on Nov 18, 2015 1:11:42 GMT
Nice questions, Peter!
Bertha's relationship with Rochester was much different from Jane's because Bertha allowed Rochester to have a great power over her and she never really challenged her role; Jane went against what a woman was supposed to be and looked for someone who she could see as her equal. As a result, the relationships of the two couples were drastically different. Although we have progressed and society's idea of what a woman should be has obviously changed some since the nineteenth century, it is still looked down upon for women to express their sexual desires as many of them are called sluts, whores, etc.
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Post by katecavallo on Nov 18, 2015 1:30:52 GMT
I did some quick research on this one, because it seems to me that there's a lot of speculation on the content of Bertha and Rochester's marriage. Apparently it's a very common theory that Rochester was using sex as a means of holding Bertha hostage; that is, it's the one thing that kept her from trying to kill him sooner. At first when I read that I thought no way, Rochester may be creepy but he's not that icky... then the more I thought about it the more I started to realize it could be true. He seems to be a very unconventional man when it comes to social views (the way he takes in Adele for one. Under normal circumstances a woman with an illegitimate child would be shamed, but instead Adele is given a good life). But considering the time period, it's very possible. The woman's main purpose in life was to have babies, and maybe Rochester thought he could still get something out of the marriage.
On the other hand, we see a gentler yet somehow more cynical side to Rochester when he is dealing with Jane. He wants Jane to be her own person (interesting contrast to Bertha's situation) and is pretty loving with her for the most part. They are dedicated to each other and do Rick Astley proud. That being said, he might totally be a womanizing misogynist who uses women's feelings to gain their trust and then lock them in an attic for a few years. Who really knows.
That being said... do you think Rochester being blinded changed his view (ahaha) of women's value? Did his becoming reliant on Jane shift his perspective and help him realize what it was like to be a woman (someone who society said required a man to help them through life)?
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Post by nzglinicki on Nov 18, 2015 20:37:58 GMT
Did his becoming reliant on Jane shift his perspective and help him realize what it was like to be a woman (someone who society said required a man to help them through life)? That's am interesting question Kaitlin. It seems very possible that it did. After he had been blinded he was elegant on others for sure, but he was as inelegant as he could be. That was very much like Jane. Jane technically was to be dependent on others, especially men, but she was stubborn and was as independent as she could be. His blindness could have been enlightened more to Jane's way of thinking and what her life was like, and that very well could have changed his opinions about things. How do you think this would have changed your life? |
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Post by tmehta on Nov 20, 2015 22:27:28 GMT
I know I keep bringing this up in all of my posts, but I feel like the time periods the two novels were written in affect Jane’s relationship with Rochester and Bertha’s relationship with Rochester. When Jane Eyre was written, sex was an extremely taboo subject, and whether Bronte wanted this or not, I think society’s view of sex influenced how Bronte created Jane and Rochester’s relationship. 120 years later, sex was still not a totally comfortable topic bringing up, but at least women were given more freedom and were judged less by society on their sex life. This might have shaped the way Rhys created her own Bertha character and Bertha and Rochester’s relationship in Wide Sargasso Sea. I also feel like Rochester only saw Bertha as an object because he bought her and brought her over from Jamaica like a slave, and men who view women as objects usually only want them for their sex. On the other hand, I think Rochester actually felt a romantic connection with Jane, which is why he treats their relationship much differently. With Jane, there is actually that “love” aspect in the relationship in addition to the “lust”. Btw, I found an article on NPR that discusses how men thought women should behave in America in the 1830s. First off, for some reason this guy thought it’d be a good idea to use 46 words in the title of his book ( Varlé's Self-instructor, No. 3, in Literature, Duties of Life, and Rules of Good Breeding: Interspersed with Popular Quotations, Mottos, Maxims, and Adages, in Latin and Other Languages : Also with the French Words Generally Met with in Newspapers, and Works of Taste and Fancy, Faithfully Translated), but that’s beside the point. Here are some rules: • Avoid everything masculine. • Be not too often seen in public. • Form no friendship with men. • Give your hand, when necessary, modestly. • Make no great intimacies with any body. • Never be afraid of blushing. ( ?) • Pride yourself in modesty. • You cannot be too circumspect in matters of love and marriage; and remember that whereas the character of a young lady is considered angelic, any blemish in it, would withdraw the respect men have for you. |
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Post by danvolpone on Nov 21, 2015 14:55:23 GMT
Rochester and Jane's relationship roles seem to flip from Jane's time at Thornfield to Ferndean. At Thornfield, Rochester is wealthy and Jane Eyre would live dependently off of Rochester. As is obvious with Jane, she wants to be independent, which could possibly be a reason why she left Thornfield. However, things change during Jane's time at the Moor House, as she acquires enough money to live independently. When Jane returns to Rochester at Ferdean, she is wealthy, and Rochester, now blind is dependent on her. Jane's ideal relationship may be one where she is in control.
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