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Post by jillian on Nov 18, 2015 20:34:29 GMT
What I found very interesting about the reading was the idea of Ladies versus Women. In the reading, humans of the female gender were categorized into two separate categories: ladies and women. Ladies were described as "delicate, frail, and ethereal" as opposed to women who were described as a monstrous whore. I thought it was very troubling and unfair how women in that time who wanted control of their life and sought out their own power (and even sometimes today) were put down and described as horrible human beings. Ladies were idolized by men and praised for being subservient to them, which is horrible, but for a patriarchal society, it is to be expected. It makes me sad to think of how all of the women back then were afraid to speak their true feelings out of fear that they would be classified a slut. In the current times, women have many options for work and many freedoms, but there are still some aspects of women that are frowned upon, which is mentioned in the packet. For women to be sexual (even today) is frowned upon, which I though was an correlation between modern and old times. Even today, people are labeling women for being open about their sexual views.
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Post by jillian on Nov 19, 2015 4:14:36 GMT
(i had to go to work so i didn't get to finish)
Ok so what we have already established in class is that Jane is the "lady" and Bertha is the "woman". However, I thought it was very ironic how Jane was headstrong and controlled almost every aspect of her life, yet she was the angel. We already see that she is not subservient to men as she rejects both Rochester and Rivers. Helen on the other hand takes up Rochester's offer of marriage right away and willingly gives up the freedom she had. I think that we labelled Jane as the angel and Bertha as the woman only because Jane is pure, and Bertha is sexually experienced. All of the evidence in the story could be used in proving that Jane is the woman. She had a job as a teacher at Lowood, she stuck up for herself, she controlled her life, had a strong sense of identity, she didn't rely on men, and she acted upon her own moral code. Bertha could be labelled as the angel since she became subservient to men, allowed her freedoms to be taken away, and didn't have any control in her life or sense of identity... But that doesn't quite fit. When you read through the entire story, you would automatically label Bertha as the woman whore and Jane as the angel. Why? I believe it all comes down to the sexual openness of Jane and Bertha. Jane is unsure of sex, and she doesn't care much to go into the subject. Bertha on the other hand is quite experienced and understanding of the mysterious wonders. That is what leads me to believe that that is why we labelled Bertha as the woman and Jane as the angel.
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Post by aamornwichet on Nov 20, 2015 2:26:07 GMT
This is super interesting to bring up. When I was reading this it reminded me of this one episode of Downton Abbey when the girl gets married and "becomes a Woman", from this I can assume that the idea of sex was somewhat related to the idea of womanhood. A traditional 'lady' (which also is more proper a word), seems to hide any sexual desires. While for women, everyone knows they have done something. The difference it seems is how they get there, a "proper" woman waits until marriage. While a "fallen" woman seems to willingly (or unwillingly) have premarital intercourse. This is interesting today because while it premarital sex is considered taboo, the word woman has come to have a whole new meaning of empowerment and progress. "I am a strong independent woman" has become something of a source of pride, not of shame. So final note we don't judge women based off sex as much today. I mean can you imagine a world where every person who has had sex, married or unmarried was automatically given a whole new title?
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Post by rcb1008 on Nov 20, 2015 3:20:33 GMT
In the packet, the relationship between "Lady" and "Woman" was both something that I anticipated and was intrigued to see highlighted. I agree that for the most part Jane is the "Lady" due to her delicate nature and Bertha is the "Woman" for her exhibited sexuality. Nonetheless, I'm glad that you pointed out how these roles can easily be switched. If we associate Conservative with "Lady" and Rebellious with "Woman" than Jane definitively stands out as the "Woman" and Bertha as the "Lady." Do other people agree with me on this? Additionally, if Jane and Bertha were characters in a modern version of Jane Eyre would they be each respectively be characterized as a "Lady," a "Woman," or somewhere in between?
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Post by jordanhilker on Nov 20, 2015 3:37:03 GMT
I agree with you in that I too think that it is unfair and sad to see how being a woman was frowned upon. It is weird to think that in the past so many women got judged for working and for speaking out for what they believe in. It is awesome to live in a society where women and men can work together and can be treated equally. Although women still get the occasional "you're just a girl" statement, the way that women are treated now is a lot better than it was in the past. (A question for all of the girls in the class) If you lived in the time where women were told how to live their life, how would you react? Do you think you would be a Jane or a Bertha?
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Post by echeng on Nov 21, 2015 0:00:53 GMT
Actually, I think it may have been easier for Jane to defy the societal standards because, this being Gothic literature, she is isolated for a lot of the time. Although the overall 19th century mood was to suppress women, this isolated environment leaves little room for peer pressure and public shaming if and when Jane spoke out for herself. Inside, all of us may be thinking, "yeah, I can be like Jane! It can't be that hard." But what Jane did not have, that all of us probably would, was that lack of pressure from a lot of people for her to conform. Of course, there were the Reeds, St. John, Rochester, etc., who pressured her, but what I'm talking about is society as a whole- like cities and towns of people who could see you and your defiant actions. Jane was isolated from all of this. (Disclaimer: Jane kind of had this peer pressure at Lowood, but she only confided in Helen, and did not do anything drastic that showed her defying gender standards). If I were in such a time period where women were constantly told to submit to men, I think it would be hard for me, individually, to break that. Given that this mentality were to be pressed into my mind since childhood, and people always around me living out that lifestyle, it would be difficult, in my opinion, for anyone to be a "Jane". |
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