bta
New Member
Posts: 11 
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Post by bta on Nov 18, 2015 21:26:53 GMT
Women of the Victorian Era were not viewed as equals to their white, male counterparts and had to be dependent on them. Women faced the challenge that they must be angelic and resist temptation if they wanted to be the ideal women of the era. Women would be considered "fallen" or monsters if they did not meet the social standards for women at the time. Bertha Mason can be seen as an example of the typical Victorian woman that failed to meet the unreasonable expectations of the time. Bertha had a lackluster childhood and was taken by Rochester from her home against her will. This caused her to eventually become insane and be considered a monster from being locked up in Thornfield for many years. Jane, however, broke the social norm and became independent from the men in her life. Instead of giving in to Rochester and being submissive, Jane overcomes the social norms of her oppressive male society of the time. Unlike Bertha, who allowed herself to fall into passivity to Rochester, Jane learns to be independent, strong, and determined, not giving into her desires.
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Post by jillian on Nov 19, 2015 4:53:18 GMT
I think that it is really sad how oppressed women were. I think Bertha stands as a metaphor for the women of the Victorian Era. They weren't all physically locked in an attic as Bertha was (i hope), but they were physically trapped by men into a social standard that forced them to conform to the way that men thought would fit. They had no freedoms at all. There was no freedom of expression. As we read in the Yellow Wallpaper, just the idea of that poor woman even writing or suggesting that she do something to occupy her time made her husband flustered. He wanted her to just sit there like a lump on a log. Its like Hoover's laissez faire (hands off) approach to the American government during the Great Depression. Hoover thought that if he just waited everything would get better, but it didn't. Things just got worse and worse. People starved and died and things got violent. People went crazy just like Bertha and the narrator in Yellow Wallpaper.
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Post by jkeeney on Nov 19, 2015 22:00:44 GMT
I like how you mentioned that females were not equal to males and had to be dependent on them. As we've seen, many Victorian women had to rely on men not only for money, but also for their own thoughts. Men in that time period saw this as their duty to make the women and their counterparts conform to their way of thinking. Bertha definitely was this typical type of woman because she probably allowed Rochester to dictate her life and which ultimately made her crazy. Had Jane been as submissive as Bertha, she probably would have ended up the same way or she wouldn't have completed her journey into adulthood. Her ability to resist temptations allows her to become a part of the dichotomy of the "Madonnas" and "angels" in that time period. What's interesting is that Jane and Blanch fit into that dichotomy, but their differences make Rochester more attracted to one than the other. Lance fits this dichotomy because of her wealth and social status, while it is never mentioned if she "got around", it can be assumed that she was the perfect example of that dichotomy, the one where everyone sort of admired her. On the other hand, Jane was none of those things but she still "pure" and her work allowed her to not fall to the other dichotomy that other people in that time looked down on.
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Post by crandallethan on Nov 20, 2015 1:03:20 GMT
Great discussion! Victorian women were definitely oppressed in that time and I think Brontë does a great job at using Jane to counter act that. Although from the perspective of the society, Jane would be viewed as "pure", Brontë moves Jane from one end of the stereotypical spectrum to the other without cementing Janes place as completely "fragile" or as a complete "monster". This mobility in the spectrum is a mirror to how Brontë moves Jane from place to place just as when we start too see Jane beginning to cement herself in a location.
Furthermore, Jane represents Brontë's refusal to coincide to the idea that a women's value is only as high as the man he serves. We can see this, because Jane transitions through all the states without being with a man. This shows the independence of Jane and Brontë's ideals against the treatment of Victorian women.
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Post by maddysmith on Nov 21, 2015 16:37:34 GMT
Crandall, I like the thing you said about Jane never being perceived as an absolute angel or monster. That was one thing I noticed in the story. Jane has her flaws, she fights with John and she doesnt listen (sometimes good sometimes bad) but she always stays true to herself and never lets anyone decide things for her. Fiercely independent, Brontë could've written Jane as a spiteful character, she would have had every reason to be spiteful after the way she had been treated by the Reeds and Mr.Brocklehursy, but instead Jane is unyielding yet kind. A complex, 3 dimensional character who knows what she wants and will do anything to achieve her goals. While she displays some characteristics of a "monster," stubborn and outspoken, she also has "angelic" characteristics; she is kind and pale and little. Brontë does a good job balancing these traits so that Jane doesn't become a caricature of either stereotype. She shows that women can't be put into boxes because they are all different.
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