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Post by sydniemarkowitz on Feb 7, 2016 13:54:05 GMT
Although I was challenged by many to connect the American Dream to the Odyssey, that proved to be impossible. The American Dream is brought up many times in today's news regarding the current race for president. All of the candidates say they can "bring back The American Dream!" but can they really? Is the American Dream already dead? Some started out in poverty and managed to work their way up, and others were born into wealth. All of the candidates are close to each other economically, other than Donald Trump. I think that the American Dream is possible to people who believe it is possible. You may need a little luck, but I think hard work can get you to where you want to be.
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Post by subhanikp on Feb 7, 2016 14:16:04 GMT
Though I agree that the American Dream is relevant to the current presidential campaigns, I am not exactly sure as to how you say it relates. Do you think that each presidential candidate has, in some way, achieved the American Dream? Or do you think that, even though some of the candidates did not achieve the dream (i.e. Donald Trump), they can still rekindle its presence in modern society? I also have trouble agreeing with your statements regarding the wealth of the candidates. Is the financial situation of the candidates truly significant in deciding whether or not they have achieved the Dream? In my opinion, obtaining money and other materialistic possessions are not as important as obtaining happiness in regards to the Dream. Please explain your thoughts about these ideas.
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sko
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Post by sko on Feb 7, 2016 15:43:19 GMT
I also agree that the American Dream relates to the presidential campaigns, especially because in a way, every candidate is trying to win votes by selling their idea to reach the American Dream. They offer ways to increase the number of jobs for more income. Some say that lowering (or raising) taxes will also help the people. Each of these proposed ideas is to benefit the people and ultimately, to help the American people to reach their American Dreams. (I'm not sure if this really relates to your post, but this is what I originally thought of!)
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Post by ryanwalchonski on Feb 7, 2016 15:51:31 GMT
Suby, in my opinion the American dream is extremely subjective, maybe each candidate's version of "the American dream" is becoming president. Also, I'm not sure why you said Donald Trump did not achieve the American dream? He infamous for saying "my father gave me a small loan of a million dollars", which he has turned into a net worth of $4 Billion. I'm not sure what your version of the American dream, but I'd guess he has made a lot more money than a lot of "American Dream achievers" obtain, so I'd say he is a prime example of the American Dream.
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Post by jesswang on Feb 7, 2016 16:57:48 GMT
The American Dream from the eyes of the presidential candidates is very interesting because they have all reached the common American's definition of this Dream; steady job, food on the table, white picket fence, and the ability to pay for college tuition. Even though all of the candidates have attained this stereotypical dream, they have to pitch themselves to the citizens as the 'common man' who can help others reach their Dreams if they're elected. They've all reached the common American's version of the American Dream, but maybe their own definition can't be fulfilled until they're elected President. In that case, they're alienated from the 'common man' even more than before.
I agree with Ryan. Subhanik, I'm interested in what you're referencing when you say that Donald Trump hasn't reached the American Dream? As a billionaire and business mogul, isn't he the epitome of the American Dream?
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pditzler
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Post by pditzler on Feb 7, 2016 17:26:39 GMT
To Subhanik, Ryan, and Jess:
I think cases like Trump's success are an interesting caveat to the American Dream. Not every achiever of the American Dream has to be a story of rags to riches. They can be rags to comfortable living, riches to even grander riches, or comfortable living to riches. As long as an individual is making advantageous use of the economic mobility allowed by capitalism. There are quite a few very wealthy entrepreneurs, like Carnegie, Zuckerburg, and Gates, who actually didn't/don't want to spoil their children with secured lifetime assets. They hope their children will forge their own paths to success. While Trump's father gave him a very large sum of money, Trump still had the initiative to turn that into a empire of assets, which I believe is an example of the American Dream. Sure, it's a game-changing shortcut to be handed a million dollars at the starting line, but the essence of the American Dream is being able to rise to economic success. He rose to an even greater ranking of economic success.
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Post by katecavallo on Feb 7, 2016 17:53:36 GMT
To everyone here already:
I think another interesting place to look at this from is not only each candidate's own experience with the American dream, but their stances on others trying to obtain it.
For example, we all know about Trump and his brilliant idea (??) to build a giant wall separating us from Mexico. He doesn't want Mexicans to come in and have them turn out to be, and I quote, "rapists and killers". While sure it's plenty possible that a rogue criminal has the idea to come to the USA to escape persecution, in reality many of these immigrants are coming over the border to find jobs and to reunite with family members already in America. Isn't that, the action of coming to America to become an independent part of capitalist society, the main core of the American Dream? Trump claims to be all for the American Dream, especially due to his riches-to-more riches life story, but is he really??
My main question to you all is how do you think a person's own life contributes to their views on what the American Dream is? Has Trump's unprecedented successes shaped his stance on the American Dream into something that's virtually unattainable for the rest of the country?
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Post by maddysmith on Feb 7, 2016 20:48:19 GMT
I like what Katelyn said about Donald Trump wanting to keep Mexicans out of the United States. Trump has a skewed view of the attainability of the American dream. As someone else said, his father gave him a "small loan of a million dollars" when he was starting out. While he may have turned this money into billions of dollars, it is still near impossible for some people, especially minorities and immigrants starting from the very bottom to make it to the top. Donald Trump is a man who thinks a million dollars is not an outrageous sum. I think he doesn't realize that there are many people in Mexico, and even in America, who are living in poverty who can't even imagine having a million dollars. It's unfair for him to try and keep Mexicans out of America because those immigrants are just coming to America to try and have a better life and maybe to find their families. To my knowledge, Donald Trump has never lived in poverty and therefore cannot understand what those people are going through and how, to them, America represents a wealth of possibilities. By building a wall, Trump is actively stopping thousands of people from pursuing their version of the American dream. For how much he talks about "making America great again" he is blind to the struggles and desires of immigrants who just want a similar shot at achieving wealth and happiness.
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pditzler
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Post by pditzler on Feb 7, 2016 21:44:12 GMT
I agree with what Maddy and Kate said as well. Trump is similar to a kid who gets all the cool toys but would rather break them than share them with other kids. I apologize if my comment seemed in support of him. While it's difficult to deny that he himself has achieved the American Dream, it's clear he is unaware of how difficult it currently is for others to achieve it when they're starting with much less than he did. At a pivotal time in American economics, when this nation is still recovering from the crippling recession, it's important to consider the presidential candidates' ideas for economic prosperity, especially when the extremes of poverty and grand wealth have expanded, leaving a smaller middle ground. How the candidates plan to preserve the American Dream to encourage innovation and hard work is still an important question, but should it still take precedence over providing more suitable living standards for every citizen when a large portion of the country is struggling to stay afloat?
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Post by sydniemarkowitz on Feb 7, 2016 22:25:43 GMT
I agree with what Maddy and Kate said as well. Trump is similar to a kid who gets all the cool toys but would rather break them than share them with other kids. I apologize if my comment seemed in support of him. While it's difficult to deny that he himself has achieved the American Dream, it's clear he is unaware of how difficult it currently is for others to achieve it when they're starting with much less than he did. At a pivotal time in American economics, when this nation is still recovering from the crippling recession, it's important to consider the presidential candidates' ideas for economic prosperity, especially when the extremes of poverty and grand wealth have expanded, leaving a smaller middle ground. How the candidates plan to preserve the American Dream to encourage innovation and hard work is still an important question, but should it still take precedence over providing more suitable living standards for every citizen when a large portion of the country is struggling to stay afloat? Peter, your statement about Donald Trump saying that he would rather break toys than share them is sooooooooo true, I shared it with my family. That is the opposite of the American Dream. I think many Americans are just looking for hope in the years coming since as you said, the recession hit hard for many people. It is hard to answer your question, but it is one that needs to be addressed. |
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pavansuresh
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Post by pavansuresh on Feb 8, 2016 16:33:44 GMT
Changing tracks a little bit, you've all been talking about Donald Trump and the other candidates, and how they themselves have achieved (or not, but in most cases, have) the American Dream, and how they talk about how they'll bring it back, but none of them really addresses socioeconomic injustice as well as, in my opinion, does Bernie Sanders. Ever since the 2008 recession, the A.D. has been declining; people are more interested in how to keep themselves above water than how to advance in social standing, as used to be the dream decades ago. Much of this can be traced to a lack of money stemming from inadequate wages, and ultimately, the economic disparity between the top 1% and the bottom 99%. Rather than address this at its core, many politicians simply ignore the issue - people like Donald Trump, who are rich and proud of it and who won't give up their unfair share of the money. What I'm saying is, Bernie is the only one truly acknowledging the issue of the disparity - and the only one who has planned something to do about it.
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Post by stepheneubanks on Feb 9, 2016 1:54:16 GMT
On the topic of Trump and Sanders, many people see Trump as an awful candidate, and I'm not saying he isn't, although people do need to understand how congress would never pass the ideas he is proposing such as building a wall along the southern border and temporarily banning an entire group of people from this country, just in case he is ever voted nominee. To add on about the talk of Trump, what is wrong with him (or other wealthy figures) spending his own money? He made his money through his billion dollar real estate enterprise showing how he has achieved his own American Dream, and by the way Trump gives millions to Veteran aid programs. Again not defending Trump to be president, but don't go after someone with no background knowledge of them. Moving on to Bernie Sanders, this guy is a joke by the way, many young people don't understand how lowered to free cost of education and health programs results in the raising of taxes and loss of income in jobs. Bernie Sanders himself has stated how he will tax around 50% of the middle classes income and tax the wealthy even more, most have earned this from their hard work over years of creating capital for the nation and should not be stripped away of their earnings. The idea of socialism or democratic socialism, as Sanders refers to, itself completely goes against the point of the American Dream and working your way through class levels through work and determination.
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berniesanderscansuckmyfatcock
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Post by berniesanderscansuckmyfatcock on Feb 9, 2016 2:02:28 GMT
@allyouretardswhosupportsocialism, Socialism encourages people to be more lazy. It makes being poor more appealing so people will have less drive and less ambition to succeed. People know the government will catch them when they fall, so they don't bother trying. You can see in nearly if not all of the socialist countries in Europe, the unemployment rate is much higher. Capitalism and social darwinism is a must for all modern economies and people to succeed. It is not meant for everyone to be rich or everyone to succeed. This is impossible. You just have to do what YOU can to make sure YOU succeed.
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