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Post by matthewzhang on Sept 22, 2015 17:17:34 GMT
The second person point of view in "Accident" is very important in the structure of the story. The second person point of view in the story allows the reader to "live in the moment" and brings a universal meaning to the story. The author's use of the word "you" allows the reader to experience the events that occurred in the story. If the story had been in any other perspective, the meaning and overall message of the story would have been completely different. If the third person point of view was applied to the story, the story will no longer have that connection with the reader because third person isn't as personal as second. There will no longer be a personal connection to the things the author himself is feeling. Dave Eggers had a purpose to writing "Accident" in the second person point of view.
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Post by ndefilippis on Sept 23, 2015 14:12:01 GMT
Point of view is also very important in "A&P", as it allows you to get close to Sammy, who in any other point of view may have been unlikable. "A&P" uses first person point of view to show the inner thoughts and feelings of the main character, which has a large impact on characterization. Sammy spends a lot of time analyzing every detail of the girls, even going so far as to draw as to draw conclusions as to what kind of family "Queenie" lived in based of her buying Herring snacks. This characterization also allows John Updike to show the reader what Sammy's motivation for quitting his job was: the fact that Leisler had embarrassed the girls, and Sammy's desire to impress them. If Updike had used another point of view, Sammy's motivation would not be as clear, and it would have been hard to draw conclusions as to why he quit his job after Leisler told the girls to leave. The motivation as to Sammy quitting also provides meaning to the story, as even Sammy knows that it would have been far-fetched for the girls to have seen him as heroic for quitting his job. First person point of view is very effective in the last line when Sammy realizes how hard his life is going to be know, which imparts the meaning to the reader that unlikely outcomes to extreme responses based off desire tend to have ugly consequences. Point of view really helps impart this meaning by showing the thoughts and feelings of a character who makes an irrational decision, and how he realizes those consequences.
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pavansuresh
New Member
I am Pavan the Skeptical Elf.
Posts: 26
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Post by pavansuresh on Sept 24, 2015 21:37:47 GMT
If the third person point of view was applied to the story, the story will no longer have that connection with the reader because third person isn't as personal as second. There will no longer be a personal connection to the things the author himself is feeling. Matt, I couldn't agree more that the second person point of view does indeed help the reader to become more closely linked with the character. Third person is nowhere near as personal, and if we had been reading this in a third person point of view, it would have looked to us like: "A guy crashes his car with a bunch of teenagers. He then gets overly emotional for some reason." However, since it's "you," second person, the tone is more accusatory. Like Mrs. McGettigan said in class, the author seems to be attempting to say "This could happen to anyone. Even you. Deal with it." Second person is the most personal of the points of view he could have used. Even if he had used first person, we would still treat it as a narrative. First person seems as if it's a person telling you something, not as if you are the one the events are happening to. The use of the term "you" in place of a protagonist character is an attempt to draw the reader into the story; it accuses, it entraps the reader in the plot line. After the shift, when the protagonist/you/the main character begins to start getting emotional, it no longer tells things in an objective point of view. It is saying that everyone at some point in their life will feel lonely, and the entire last line is a metaphor for the sorrows of life, how one can try to stay afloat by oneself but will be dragged under without the support of others.
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Post by joshualiu on Sept 24, 2015 21:47:04 GMT
If the story had been in any other perspective, the meaning and overall message of the story would have been completely different. I completely agree with your statement, Matt. You mentioned how using third person would be ineffective at conveying the personal feeling that Eggers communicated, and first person would be just as obsolete, despite it's uses of prepositions, such as "I" and "me." The reader or audience may not assume that Eggers is putting the reader directly in the place of the protagonist. Instead, the reader might infer that Eggers is talking about himself alone, and that the reader has nothing to do with the story. As a result, the story becomes impersonal and only about a random protagonist and a random short story. Since the third and first person point of views are both clearly inaccurate in adding the personal effect Eggers was going for, second person definitely plays a major role in "The Accident."
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Post by ashen99 on Sept 24, 2015 21:59:03 GMT
This characterization also allows John Updike to show the reader what Sammy's motivation for quitting his job was: the fact that Leisler had embarrassed the girls, and Sammy's desire to impress them. If Updike had used another point of view, Sammy's motivation would not be as clear, and it would have been hard to draw conclusions as to why he quit his job after Leisler told the girls to leave. I really agree with what you said. In the story, the point of view gives us insight into Sammy's motivations because we have access to all of his thoughts. If first person point of view was not used, some might think that Sammy quit in protest of his boss since the boss embarrassed the girls. However, there is no ambiguity. We know definitively that he only quit just to impress the girls.
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Post by anewman98 on Sept 24, 2015 23:43:20 GMT
The second person point of view in the story allows the reader to "live in the moment" and brings a universal meaning to the story. Matt, I agree with how you say second person point of view allows readers to "live in the moment". You are placed directly in the action, and it's almost like you are on the scene of the accident. This has a great impact, because your feelings change consistently with the story's events, whether those feelings are ones of worry, sadness, or even defense. This is much more touching than viewing events from an outsider's perspective. However, I disagree that second person POV brings "universal meaning to the story." I think the meaning of the story depends on the reader's interpretation, which depends on their background. For example, teens reading this may feel angry, since they are new drivers too. Parents, on the other hand, may feel distraught, because they can relate to the worry of having their own kids on the road. Personally, I felt defensive. I felt as if views were being forced on me, and I know I wouldn't have all the same thoughts that the story is telling me I would. All in all, while the theme may be universal, personal meaning of The Accident really depends on how you view it.
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Post by emilywerkheiser on Sept 25, 2015 0:19:17 GMT
Alan, I agree with your comments about the importance of the first person point of view in “A&P” and the impact that it has on the characterization of Sammy. To expand on this idea, another component of point of view in the story is the narrative voice. Throughout the story, the author employs a variety of techniques to make the type of person that the narrator is, be very clear. In the story, the narrator, Sammy, embodies the stereotype of a hormonal teenage boy. The first person point of view allows the reader to see into Sammy’s thoughts, revealing his obsession with girls and focus on their external appearance (demonstrated by how he relentlessly observes every move of the girls in the bikinis in a very crude and almost perverted manner), a trait that is associated with the teenage boy stereotype. Further developing the narrator’s voice, Sammy speaks in a colloquial manner, begging sentences with phrases like “you know” or “really”, and adding in sassy or humorous observations, such as comparing the grocery store shoppers to sheep. The usage of this conversational language conveys Sammy’s youth and helps create the narrator’s voice. Lastly, Sammy’s impulsive and childish decisions further develop his voice as an immature and hormonal teenage boy. Sammy’s motivation to quit his job was purely to impress the girls by being their “knight in shining armor”, as displayed by his disappointment when they were not outside waiting to reward him and his regret with his decision. Sammy’s statement that, “once you begin a gesture, it’s fatal not to go through with it” shows that he does not focus on analyzing one’s decisions and the potential consequences before acting, which further exemplifies his childish personality and develops the narrative voice. The author does all this to create the narrator’s voice in order to make the story somewhat relatable and keep the protagonist from being completely unlikable.
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Post by emilywerkheiser on Sept 25, 2015 0:20:03 GMT
Alan, I agree with your comments about the importance of the first person point of view in “A&P” and the impact that it has on the characterization of Sammy. To expand on this idea, another component of point of view in the story is the narrative voice. Throughout the story, the author employs a variety of techniques to make the type of person that the narrator is, be very clear. In the story, the narrator, Sammy, embodies the stereotype of a hormonal teenage boy. The first person point of view allows the reader to see into Sammy’s thoughts, revealing his obsession with girls and focus on their external appearance (demonstrated by how he relentlessly observes every move of the girls in the bikinis in a very crude and almost perverted manner), a trait that is associated with the teenage boy stereotype. Further developing the narrator’s voice, Sammy speaks in a colloquial manner, begging sentences with phrases like “you know” or “really”, and adding in sassy or humorous observations, such as comparing the grocery store shoppers to sheep. The usage of this conversational language conveys Sammy’s youth and helps create the narrator’s voice. Lastly, Sammy’s impulsive and childish decisions further develop his voice as an immature and hormonal teenage boy. Sammy’s motivation to quit his job was purely to impress the girls by being their “knight in shining armor”, as displayed by his disappointment when they were not outside waiting to reward him and his regret with his decision. Sammy’s statement that, “once you begin a gesture, it’s fatal not to go through with it” shows that he does not focus on analyzing one’s decisions and the potential consequences before acting, which further exemplifies his childish personality and develops the narrative voice. The author does all this to create the narrator’s voice in order to make the story somewhat relatable and keep the protagonist from being completely unlikable.
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Post by stepheneubanks on Sept 25, 2015 1:36:30 GMT
Matt, I agree completely with you in the thought that the story would not be the same with another point of view such as first person or third person point of view. The second person point of view in the story by the Author was put in for a reason, to create an immersive feeling to the reader as if he/she was in that situation. In the case of the story the reader was supposed to feel as though "they" were in the story as themselves and not as another character created by the author. Here you can have your feelings and emotions about the scene/text in the story as if you really living in it or had already lived this experience. If Dave Eggers had wrote the short story with another point of view the story would not have felt the same, either being because it was third person and you were not attached to the character in anyway or first person where you were reading as the character. None of these points of view provide the thoughts and feelings you get in second person.
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Post by cstrohlein on Sept 25, 2015 2:07:50 GMT
[/quote] In the story, the point of view gives us insight into Sammy's motivations because we have access to all of his thoughts. If first person point of view was not used, some might think that Sammy quit in protest of his boss since the boss embarrassed the girls. However, there is no ambiguity. We know definitively that he only quit just to impress the girls. [/quote]
I disagree with this. I feel that everything that goes through Sammy's mind, such as his motivation for quitting, is very clear just from his actions. Although being able to see into his mind does confirm any suspicions the reader said, I think that from Sammy looking around for the girls after making his big show of defending them shows that he was just looking for their approval. Also, throughout the story, Sammy's somewhat perverty nature could be clearly seen through any outsiders eyes. If the audience could not see into Sammy's mind, and only heard a description of his actions, his characterization would still be the same, as him constantly checking out the girls in their bathing suits would give us the same insight as hearing his thoughts. I think that the real reason for Updike's choice in point of view is to make sure the reader doesn't hate Sammy. Although by no means do I think he's a likable character, being able to see into his mind just allows the reader to feel like they know him, making them feel less inclined to dislike him.
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Post by colleenstrohlein on Sept 25, 2015 2:40:41 GMT
In the story, the point of view gives us insight into Sammy's motivations because we have access to all of his thoughts. If first person point of view was not used, some might think that Sammy quit in protest of his boss since the boss embarrassed the girls. However, there is no ambiguity. We know definitively that he only quit just to impress the girls. I disagree with this. I feel that everything that goes through Sammy's mind, such as his motivation for quitting, is very clear just from his actions. Although being able to see into his mind does confirm any suspicions the reader said, I think that from Sammy looking around for the girls after making his big show of defending them shows that he was just looking for their approval. Also, throughout the story, Sammy's somewhat perverty nature could be clearly seen through any outsiders eyes. If the audience could not see into Sammy's mind, and only heard a description of his actions, his characterization would still be the same, as him constantly checking out the girls in their bathing suits would give us the same insight as hearing his thoughts. I think that the real reason for Updike's choice in point of view is to make sure the reader doesn't hate Sammy. Although by no means do I think he's a likable character, being able to see into his mind just allows the reader to feel like they know him, making them feel less inclined to dislike him.
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Post by carlsonchris on Sept 25, 2015 2:57:53 GMT
Good points Matt. The second person point of view impacts the tone as well. If the story had been written in one of the other point of views, the tone would have been much creepier due to the fact that the main character is essentially a weird loner. Using the second person point of view, the author is able to connect it to the reader in a way that may not have been possible with a different point of view. It allows the lessons you can learn, like that all humans need a form of social interaction no matter how odd, to be conveyed in a more impactful manner. The second person point of view links you to the character in a way that the other point of views cannot and therefore guides the entire story.
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