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Post by matthewzhang on Nov 16, 2015 21:10:39 GMT
One of the topics discussed in the article is the concept of women being a whore or self-sacrificing and angelic. The angels were considered women who were delicate and mimicked characteristics of women who sacrificed their interests for the good of their children and husbands. The whores were the "fallen women" who became mad or insane from their sexual desires and their effort to climb the social ladder. This topic of angelic vs whore clearly draws a line that separates Jane Eyre and Bertha Mason. Jane was able to climb out of her angelic state and become independent while Bertha's angelic nature eventually led her to insanity. Both women did start out as angelic women, but the main difference was Jane was able to fight for her cause and push through the gender boundaries created by society while Bertha was not able to. Jane was able to conquer both Mrs. Reed and Mr. Rochester. Jane was able to forgive Mrs. Reed even through the pain she faced at Mrs. Reed's household, and Jane was able to take control over her relationship with Mr. Rochester at the end of the novel. Bertha Mason was not able to find her voice in this conflict of submissiveness and this eventually leads to her insanity. But as we see in Wide Sargasso Sea Bertha's only source of comfort and dependence was on Mr. Rochester, but because Mr. Rochester did not provide her with any kind of love and affection, Bertha's life spiraled out of control and eventually led to her madness.
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Post by ryanwalchonski on Nov 17, 2015 16:42:59 GMT
I agree with you Matt and would like to add one thing. These "fallen women" often had to result to prostitution. The reasons for this "fall" was explained in the article as either forced (either poverty or ignorance), or by their own free will. This can be seen in modern times as well, one of the worlds biggest social issues is that of sex trade/sex slavery. I have one question Matt, if Rossetti was so intent on describing "Jenny", and others loved to criticize them for their choices, why would these middle or upper class men not help them?
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Post by Ms. McGettigan on Nov 17, 2015 19:22:51 GMT
Great question Ryan. Is there a stigma associated with helping a "fallen woman"?
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Post by matthewzhang on Nov 17, 2015 20:44:02 GMT
There is definitely a stigma associated with helping these fallen women. One of the reasons why men don't help the fallen women is they want to remain in control and remain dominant in society. Men, especially upper class and middle class men, in this type of society think if they help these whores and lost women find their identities and values the women will be able to take control and become the dominant role in households or society. The upper and middle class men just want to stay at the top of their rung in the social class ladder and keep the whores and fallen women at the bottom of the ladder.
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Post by joshualiu on Nov 17, 2015 22:19:28 GMT
Matt, you made some good points, but I'm not sure that I completely agree with your reason for why fallen women are viewed in a negative connotation in society. The stigma with fallen women would better relate to the idea that women with characteristics of being submissive, unassertive, and animalistic, along with having a lack of self-identity, are looked down upon. Submissive women can be seen as lacking a sense of direction or purpose to life. Instead of following their goals, they just follow what other people tell them to do. A woman that's unassertive shows a weakness in standing up for her beliefs and ideas, and one who's animalistic is out of control and wild. Without a self-identity, a woman is lost and has few desires. All of these undesirable characteristics and behaviors associated with fallen women show the stigma associated with them.
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Post by colleenstrohlein on Nov 18, 2015 2:02:21 GMT
Matt, I agree with a lot of what you said, but you talked about Jane and said that she "was able to climb out of her angelic state", and also said that women who didn't fit the angelic stereotype were considered "fallen women" or "whores". Jane is certainly not considered a whore, and yet her descent from the angelic state to become an independent woman could be described as a "fallen angel". Bertha, who stayed in the angelic state, eventually was driven to madness. If the fallen woman label applies to any woman who does not fit the submissive "angel" character, why do you think Bertha could be described this way but not Jane? Does this mean that Jane still stays partially submissive, and does not completely lose the angelic constriction?
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Post by carlsonchris on Nov 23, 2015 2:57:56 GMT
Colleen, I think that Jane still retains part of her submissiveness due to the fact that in her heart she knows she wants Mr. Rochester and finally ends up going back to him. Due to his blindness she has to assume a caretaker role and essentially has to give up her life to helping him. This self- sacrifice anchors her down and still lets her be classified as angelic.
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